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Click here to see what author Steven Brust thinks will happen
This is delightfully silly.
No way Vlad would EVER do a hit with a thrown knife. Also, he wouldn’t take a guy out in his own house–that just isn’t done.
After spending a few weeks learning everything about the guy, most likely, he’d find him walking somewhere, Loiosh would fly up and distract the wizard, and Vlad would put a knife into his back causing instant shock, then another into his left eye for insurance. He’d be holding Godslayer in his other hand, just to be safe. He would also, of course, be wearing his Phoenx Stone amulets to protect him from magic.
While Dumbledore putters around his headmaster’s office, chatting with the paintings on the wall, Vlad quickly says the name of the ridiculous candy he knows will reveal the stairs. Although he knows the wizard is elderly, his heart shudders to think of killing such a kindly old man–and then he throws a knife into Dumbledore’s back. As Dumbledore collapses to the floor, Vlad can’t see that the old wizard is pulling his wand out his sleeve. Nor can he understand why a decrepit-looking bird has just hopped down and is crying into the wizard’s mouth. Before he has a chance to finish off the job, he’s thrown backwards, crashing into a cabinet, causing a bowl of silver goo to spill all over him. Luckily, he gets Godslayer up in time to catch the fireball bearing down on him, but the second spell comes way too fast, and the assassin is transmogrified into a stuffed unicorn. Dumbledore, ever the kindly headmaster, presents it to a homesick Ravenclaw first-year, who gladly takes the animal everywhere–and doesn’t seem to grasp that plush toys are not acceptable replacements for handkerchiefs.
Loiosh can’t stop laughing.
Predicted Winner: Albus Dumbledore
(Dumbledore is a character from J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter series; Vlad Taltos is the main character from Steven Brust’s Dragaeran books)
Why is dumbdorf winning? I don’t think he’d have the speed or killer instinct to win a fight. He’d get tripped up. He’d lose, and quickly at that. He’s an academic more than anything else, getting a knife in him once will be enough distraction to finish the job. I just don’t see any way of dumbdorf winning outside of dumb luck, and I don’t see that as a special attack.
This is something I’ve been thinking about. If this takes place in Hogwarts (where Vlad goes to kill Dumbledore), which is on Earth, so would Vlad have access to the Orb there? Would a Phoenix Stone guard against the magic from–wait for it–the key member of the Order of the Phoenix (man, the cleverness of that gave me chills!)?
and @EricinTucson brought up a good point: is what Dumbledore using sorcery, or is it witchcraft? Obviously there’s a semantic argument here that I don’t want to delve into (unless anyone does…anyone?), but the nature of the magic that Dumbledore uses must surely come into play. Because why would phoenix stones protect against magic that it’s never encountered before?
Now, I realize that @UDT is probably right–that people are voting for Dumbledore because they may not know who Vlad is–in which case, I suggest you all RUN out and read these books. Trust me, you’ll love them.
On the other hand, though, @Mike is wrong to assume Dumbledore doesn’t have a “killer instinct” or “speed.” He ACTS like a bumbling fool (Stumbledore!), but he’s really an excellent fighter, and his fluffy exterior is around a hardened shell. While I’m playfully underestimating Vlad, don’t underestimate Dumbledore–he’s the real deal.
let’s not forget about Loraan. Vlad might have not defeated him outright because he had the help of darkness, Loiosh/Rocza, and Savn who did the ultimate deed, but he was able to hold his own against Loraan despite still recovering from his injuries, and was able to have a conversation with Savn during the whole dance. And this was before he had Godslayer.
vlad’s incredibly resourceful. i’m not convinced he’d win when it came down to a cage match, but he’s certainly no easy bait.
If the cage is less than 30 feet across, I say Vlad wins. Loiosh and Fawkes would interfere with one another. Dumbledore would get off one of his blasts that Vlad would parry with Godslayer. A second blast would also be blocked and then Godslayer would sink into Dumbledore’s chest and put him down. Dumbledore may be one of the best dueling wizards alive, but he’s not dueling another wizard, he dueling someone with a pointy stick made to take out wizards… oh, and GODS.
Now, if it is a longer distance, Dumbledore might realize after the first or second shot that there is a problem and then cause some ‘atmospheric’ condition to take out Vlad – like conjuring and dropping a rhino on him. Don’t care how well you can block spells – a couple of tons of pissed off animal on your head will put a kink into your style. Or just turn the ground around him into lava.
Anyone who’s read both series has to give this one to Vlad. Ignoring everything else, Dumbledore only uses non-lethal tactics on a guy who tortures his lackeys for fun, Vlad would destroy someone’s soul if that’s what it took to survive. Yes Dumbledore could drop an elephant on Vlad’s head if he immediately realized Vlad’s magic immunity, but it’s just not something Dumbledore would do.
Unfortunately, it seems Vlad is going to lose the poll, most likely due to uninformed voters and the inaccurate description/prediction. As a result I decided to come up with a scenario where Dumbledore would win taken into account my interpretation of both characters. We’ll keep it in Dumbledore’s office, I think it counts as his home, but since I highly doubt Dumbledore is a member of the Organization those rules do not necessarily protect him. I haven’t yet got a chance to read the latest Vlad book so I apologize if anything seems inaccurate as a result.
Vlad enters the office through one of the windows in Castle Black. Dumbledore sits at his desk, he claps his hands as the assassin enters and two steaming cups appear. “Welcome, Count Taltos. I asked the House Elves to find a recipe for Klava and I must say I am becoming quite fond of your world’s beverage. I suspect it will become quite popular as exams approach.” Vlad remains silent and motionless so Dumbledore continues. “I trust you’ll find your cup just the way you like it. I prefer mine with a bit more honey, but I believe the House Elves have already prepared it to your tastes. Or would you prefer some peach brandy? I try to keep the alcohol at Hogwarts to a minimum, but I normally also try to keep out assassins so today I seem to be breaking as many rules as my favorite students.” Dumbledore claps again and two glasses appear but they remain untouched. “It’s not like you to accept work on a human, but I suppose your Demon Goddess can be quite persuasive. I know you will not back out of a contract easily but I required a suitable incentive and I knew just the room to look for it.” Dumbledore gestures to the Pensieve in the corner. “That contains all of the memories She has ever taken from you.
Vlad steps toward the Pensieve. He hesitantly raises his hand to his amulet.
“Boss are you sure this is a good idea?”
“Of course not.”
“Right boss.”
A few minutes later Vlad puts his amulet back on and steps back through Morrolan’s window. The window closes and a girl with brown eyes steps out of the shadows. “Yuck. I think that one was earwax.”
Oh wow. This is an interesting contest, and one that I honestly hadn’t considered. (I’d prefer to consider Vlad putting a shine on that Potter kid.)
I have a few points to toss out:
Vlad won’t kill a Jhereg in their home, but he certainly offed the King on Elde in his own castle. You can hit a guy in his office, right? Well, Dumbledore works out of Hogwart’s, as well as apparently keeping quarters there. On that front, I think Vlad would be willing to hit Dumbledore at “home”, though I’m sure he would vastly prefer not to.
I’ve been led to believe that Hogwart’s is nigh impregnable, unless you need to get in for vital plot purposes.
Godslayer has been expounded on, of course, but we can’t assume that Dumbledore would sit around on his thumbs for the many, many years of his long life collecting dust and the handful of artifacts shown in the Potter (I shudder) books. He’d be a threat, and certainly capable of making Vlad into little bits of ash floating in the breeze if he needed to.
My prediction: Vlad’s higher narrative worth allows him to stick around until another roving band of Deatheaters saunter into Hogwart’s to cause a ruckus like so many disorderly rugby fans. It’s a fairly common occurrence, and you can easily predict when the next break-in will be by charting Slytherin pass/fail midterm rates. (For instance, it’s always late in the Spring semester, about three weeks after certain indiscretions in Cancun…) Vlad would wait until Dumbledore went to investigate and strike while DD is far away from his office, tomes of arcana and Fawkes.
Would Vlad kill DD? I like to think so. On the other hand, I think Vlad would walk away from the contract unless forced. Why? Vlad hasn’t taken a contract on an Easterner yet, due to personal reasons.
I like Kordath’s entry. It combines what I said with a narrative.
Also, they ninja’d me.
Wow, I really need to read more… I once again don’t know who the other competitor is. Anyway, I picked Dumbledore.
And for all you HP haters, Hermione is winning
All other factors aside Vlad is IMMUNE TO MAGIC. Sure there are workarounds, you could blast the floor out from under his feet or magically propel heavy objects at him, but by the time Dumbledore realizes his first few spells have been completely useless Godslayer has cut through any magical defenses like butter and is planted firmly in Dumbledore’s eye.
As I see it, the biggest problem is one that everyone seems willing to overlook. Every wizard in the HP universe has one major handicap. If they don’t have their wand, they are useless. I am happy to go on the assumption that for the basis of this match-up, Vlad did not have time to prepare. If he did, he would have had Kiera the Thief steal Dumbledore’s wand and be done with it. The fact is though that it is not difficult to disarm a wizard in the HP books. It happens all the time. Vlad is certainly smart enough to make sure that Dumbledore did not have access to his wand.
It stikes me that it is somewhat fitting that Vlad is losing. IMO despite Brust being the clearly better and more experienced writer , he is relitivly unknown, while J.K Rowling (who i do think is a good writer just not quite up to par with Brust) is known world wide has movies of her books and has mobs of crazy fans. Speaking of which there needs to be some kind of multimedia version of the Taltos novels, audio books or even an animated series (with each chapter being an episode and each season being of course 17 episodes making one book. and now im just rambling aimlessly so now im done. Mr. Brust. Im serious about the multimedia thing. This must be done.
It stikes me that it is somewhat fitting that Vlad is losing. IMO despite Brust being the clearly better and more experienced writer , he is relitivly unknown, while J.K Rowling (who i do think is a good writer just not quite up to par with Brust) is known world wide has movies of her books and has mobs of crazy fans. Speaking of which there needs to be some kind of multimedia version of the Taltos novels, audio books or even an animated series (with each chapter being an episode and each season being of course 17 episodes making one book. and now im just rambling aimlessly so now im done. Mr. Brust. Im serious about the multimedia thing. This must be done.
Haha: I do like the idea of Dumbledore having a thing for klava.
I hope you were putting this up to get everyone’s goat (which is such a funny expression), because Hermione is getting her, um, posterior handed to her:
http://bit.ly/cQmXta
sorry, but looks like Jaime is going to win Hermion
Heh, you beat me to the punch with that one. Vlad’s a master at killing wizards who don’t see it coming.
Vlad totally should have won this, between Godslayer, Loiosh helping out, and his friends coming to help him (Morrolan, Aliera, Sethra), oh and let’s not forget about Verra
Exactly what I was going to say, ExSE.
Sigh. This is a classic “plotter vs. power” matchup, just like Superman vs. Batman.
Batman, given time to prepare, wins.
Still, I’m minded to follow Peter David’s rule. You want to know if the Hulk is stronger than Superman? Whose book is it? ‘Cause if the title font is big and green, I know where to put my money.
On gut instinct, though, come on! Vlad was _made_ to kill wizards. He’s immune to magic in two different ways, and he _always_ escapes. Dumbledore let himself get killed by a freakin’ potion.
“No matter how subtle the wizard ….”
(… a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.)
Issues the overview has forgotten:
Vlad has the support of three of the world’s greatest wizards.
Those three great wizards also have Great Weapons, named Blackwand, Pathfinder, and Iceflame.
Additionally, Vlad has a Great Weapon called Nightslayer, carried by Zungaron, on his side.
Kiera the Thief could easily steal the stuffed unicorn.
Aliera e’Kieron could easily heal Vlad.
If Aliera failed, Daymar could probably pull it off.
If all else fails, Vlad is also friends with the Necromancer, who is more skilled in sorcerous arts than the Lords of Judgment who dispatched her.
Dumbledore is 128 years old? Sethra Lavode is over 250,000. And she’s already dead.
There is no way Vlad would not know about Fawkes. Loiosh would probably eat the Phoenix. Or else they would simply capture him and present him to the Empress Zerika IV as a gift.
With the help of Morrolan e’Drien and the Necromancer, Vlad could easily arrive at Hogwarts, dissolve the school into a sea of chaos, and return to his own world.
Lastly, the pretense that Dumbledore would even see Vlad coming is questionable. The scenario proposed suggests that Vlad would break most, if not all of his rules about being a successful assassin. I can’t figure what evil Dumbledore would have to commit to compel that course of action.
I will not reiterate most of the discrepancies in the example scenario except to say the following:
a) if Dumbledore gets to use Faux, then Vlad gets to use Loiosh (fair is fair).
b) I don’t understand why , “there really wasn’t time for [Vlad] to do his normal ‘stake-out-the-mark’ routine. He was thrown into this pretty much blind,” when the first line of Hermione vs. Jamie says, “Hermione had prepped even harder for this battle than she had for her O.W.L.s, and in much the same fashion—by hitting the library.” It seems to me if Hermione had time to prep…
I also disagree that we should even remotely consider Vlad’s friends as part of the equation. Albus Dumbledore also has a slew of friends that care about him very much, and would be there in an instant to help the headmaster out in any fight. Let’s keep it mano-e-mano (plus familiars, of course).
That all being said and other things being equal: Dumbledore gets his wand, Vlad gets Lady Teldra (Godslayer), and they each get the things they would normally have on them at the time. I think this would be a hard fought battle, with both sides pulling a few surprises. However, in the end, the contest would go to Vlad Taltos. It is simply a fact of the match-up; Vlad is set up to defeat wizards, sorcerers, and users of magic.
In fact I think that Vlad could probably win against any of the wizards and sorcerers and even a couple of the gods (um, Godslayer…) in this tournament. Now, throw him into the ring with an extremely good fighter who doesn’t use magic, or even a moderate fighter with cool technology (like guns) on their side (or even Arthur Dent: hard to kill), then Vlad may have met his match. I do not think Vlad could win the tourney, but he should have made a better run than he will get credit for.
Thanks for the fun, I really enjoy the site.
Bear in mind that Dumbledore is a brilliant man, and will quickly catch on to the fact that his enemy is immune to direct magical attack. He’s proven he can Apparate his way out of harm as it comes at him on several occasions, and can become invisible without a cloak, so dodging the sword isn’t a big deal. And even if he can’t directly target Vlad…what about the ceiling over his head? The floor under his feet? Can Vlad survive in a roomful of fire that Dumbledore can simply vanish from after he ignites it? Any wizard who lasted as long as Dumbledore did- remember, he only died when he LET Snape kill him- is going to go to indirect tactics very quickly in this situation, and in that case my money is on the guy who can turn the battlefield against you and simply not be there when you go to attack him.
Wow, these Hogwarts characters are pests. It’s a Dumbledore (alone) vs. Vlad (alone). I do think, that if they were genuinely alone (no bird, no Loiosh), Vlad would win. All he needs to do is shoot the wizard’s hand, so he could drop his wand (I mean, isn’t it pathetic, that all his great ability can only be used with a stick of wood?, and then it’s all over. Teh end.
Um, Godslayer, formerly spellbreaker, captures any spell. I think that would effectively eliminate Dumbledore’s chances of winning.
it depends on the universe the fight takes place in, as was said before.
dumbledore can and will apparate each time any attack goes anywhere near him. he can also read minds sort of, and is smart enough to realize direct attacks wont kill vlad. he will win no doubt in his own universe, with or without preperation.
in vlads universe you could argue that the mind reading wont work, that vlad is fast enough to kill him, that his magic is stronger etc.. I still think dumbledore should win though, but thats argueable.
People seam to dislike the HP series vs other fantasies, maybe because it had success with none-fantasy people aswell. but you have to admit that in his own universe, dumbledore is pretty much unbeatable.
and btw, he wasnt killed by voldemort, he sacrificed himself, which was part of his strategy.. if there’s a character out there that can convince him to do it again, that should be enough lol.. voldemort and dumbledore were both at a level of power which ment they pretty much couldnt be killed in a basic duel (unless you’re harry potter and the auther decided she wants a happy ending so she added some extra elements into the universe to make that possible), which is the exact problem of this duel. the best vlad fans could hope for is a draw, meaning nither of them can kill each other, but again it all depends on the universe..
anyways, lets channel this HP hate to something more usefull, like Twilight hate
Big ups to @Kordath.
While I enjoy mentally parsing through all the permeabilities regarding the magical attacks and defenses of both fictional universes, I can’t seriously entertain the notion that these two would ever actually come to blows. While I agree that Vlad’s powerful abilities, toys, and friends make him nearly the perfect tool for killing Dumbledore I think that the only possible way that would happen would be if the plot required it, as in the end of the HP series. Dumbledore has already shown that he will not kill his assassins, but instead will play upon whatever goodness they possess to turn them towards the side of right. And Vlad, for all his god-killing bad-assery, is essentially a good guy, deep down. Real deep down at times, to be sure.
I think the true winner here would be Loiosh, who would laugh himself to tears when he styles himself First Lieutenant of Dumbledore’s Army.
“Shut up, Loiosh.”
I can’t believe how swamped this battle was with logical arguments as to why Vlad should win, and yet he still lost. This is the first time anything has managed to raise my nerdrage since I was a teenager. LAME, people, lame.
And that’s the end of that chapter!
Make sure to check out (and comment) on the next match with Dumbledore–this time versus Raistlin Majere:
http://wp.suvudu.com/2010/03/cage-match-2010-round-2-6-raistlin-majere-versus-11-albus-dumbledore.html